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| Lebanon's Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah addresses his supporters via a screen during iftar, |
BEIRUT (Reuters) - Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah emerged from hiding on Friday to deliver his first major speech in years, addressing a rally in his southern Beirut stronghold in support of the Palestinian conflict against Israel.
"Israel poses a danger on all people of this region...including Lebanon, and removing it is a Lebanese national interest," Nasrallah told hundreds of supporters in his half-hour speech.
The charismatic Shi'ite cleric has lived mainly in the shadows, fearing assassination, since Hezbollah fought an inconclusive month-long war with Israel in 2006.
His last major speech came a month after that conflict, when he declared victory in front of thousands of supporters. Since then, he has made occasional and brief public appearances - most recently last September - but no lengthy public address.
Hezbollah emerged in the 1980s as the most prominent Lebanese faction fighting Israel's occupation of south Lebanon, but in recent months has lent its military support to President Bashar al-Assad's battle against Syrian rebels.
The militant group helped Assad's forces recapture the Syrian border town from the mainly Sunni Muslim rebels, an intervention which sharply escalated sectarian tension in Lebanon, where most Sunnis support the anti-Assad rebels.
Nasrallah said Hezbollah's enemies, including the United States, Israel and Britain, were trying to exploit the political tensions to drive a wedge between the Shi'ites and the rest of the region to marginalize their role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
"We want to say to every enemy and every friend...we the Shi'ites of the world will not abandon Palestine, the Palestinian people or the sacred sites in Palestine," Nasrallah said, to loud cheers of support.
Security was heightened in the southern Beirut suburb where Nasrallah spoke, with gunmen stationed at intersections leading to the hall where he delivered his address. Buses were parked across the streets to prevent access to all but pedestrians.
The precautions were not academic. A huge car bomb hit the same Beirut district a month ago, two blocks from where Nasrallah was speaking, wounding 53 people.
Nasrallah was speaking on the occasion of Jerusalem Day, marked each year on the last Friday of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan in accordance with a tradition established by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the late ruler of Iran and an
"Some might think that the elimination of Israel is a Palestinian interest," Nasrallah said. "Yes, it is a Palestinian interest but not just that. It is in the interest of the entire Islamic world, it is in the interest of the entire Arab world … and it is also in the national interest for every country in the region."
Eddie Obeid lorded it over the Labor party for decades.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rise-and-fall-of-the-godfather-20130802-2r4sb.html#ixzz2apnhLmVH
'There are two types of people in the Labor Party,'' one senior state MP says. They were ''those who bent the knee and kissed Eddie's ring, and those who kept their distance because they thought him so odious''.
To Labor's shame, only a handful stood up to the high priest of the Right, Eddie Obeid, found by the Independent Commission Against Corruption this week to have engaged in corrupt conduct.
Obeid was building a stable of young politicians who owed their careers to him.
It cost premier Nathan Rees his job in 2009. Frank Sartor annoyed Obeid while in the planning portfolio, and missed out being premier. Bob Carr's record was mixed. He let Obeid into the ministry in the first place, but dropped him in 2003.
Engaged in corrupt conduct: Eddie Obeid. Photo: Dallas Kilponen
Now, as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd prepares to press the go button on a federal election campaign, questions remain about whether the man who wielded so much power for two decades has really released his octopus-like grip on the NSW Labor Party.
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And what will be the ramifications for Labor, both at the federal election and the state election in March 2015?
The corruption findings against Eddie Obeid and his colleague, former minerals minister Ian Macdonald, will remain in the headlines for years.
Eddie Obeid at the offices of the El Telegraph in September 1983. Photo: Ross Willis
''We will pursue this through every court of the land to prove that we're innocent,'' a furious Obeid pledged this week. ''We've done nothing wrong, and this has been just a political witch-hunt to have Labor ex-ministers in the public eye being scandalised and victimised and vilified.''
In a few weeks, another ICAC report, this one into former minerals minister Macdonald and his dealings with ex-union boss John Maitland, will be released.
Meanwhile, ICAC is working on new lines of inquiry into the affairs of Obeid. In their sights are three cafe leases granted to his family at Circular Quay and decisions that may have benefited a company, Australian Water Holdings, in which his family had a secret interest.
Close friend: Rene Rivkin. Photo: Rob Homer
It is Labor's never-ending nightmare.
This week former NSW premier Rees estimated the likely damage to federal Labor at 2 to 3 percentage points off the party's primary vote.
Rudd's advisers are more hopeful. While they concede there will be inevitable damage to the Labor brand, they hope Rudd's squeaky-clean image and swift actions to put the national executive in control of the NSW party will minimise the fallout.
But that assumes Obeid won't roll out his most potent weapon: associating his name with those whom he now considers his enemy. This week he casually dropped to the media that he had backed Rudd as leader in 2006 and made calls in support. Rudd's office has denied he ever met Obeid, other than possibly at a party function; but so toxic is Obeid's reputation that any mud could stick.
The state elections in March 2015 were already threatening to be a disaster for Labor. But ongoing publicity will make it easy for the O'Farrell government to run the campaign as a second referendum on
Labor sleaze. In the short term, though, the challenge for Labor will be convincing the public that the tentacles of Obeid's influence through the party have been truly cauterised. And with Obeid on the rampage, prepared to boast of his connections through the party, it may not be so simple.
Edward Obeid was born in the village of Matrit in Lebanon and emigrated with his family when he was six. He grew up in Redfern and showed early entrepreneurial spirit by selling newspapers and collecting soft drink bottles for the deposits.
As a young man he worked as a taxi driver, studied accountancy and married Judy Abood.
How Obeid became seriously rich is not clear. In the early 1970s he teamed up with Karim Kisrwani, another Lebanese businessman who ran a travel agency and a property development business.
In 1973 Obeid and other business partners bought Arabic newspaper El Telegraph. As its publisher, Obeid became a big wheel in the community. He joined the Labor Party at the age of 29 and was soon attending functions.
By the late 1970s Obeid had met Labor's consummate wheeler and dealer, then NSW state secretary, Graham Richardson. According to Marian Wilkinson's book The Fixer, Richardson helped Obeid with a problem with Marrickville Council, which wanted to stop his presses running after hours. Obeid, in turn, became Richardson's adviser on ethnic communities while providing Labor with discounted advertisements in his own publications.
Obeid became a regular at Labor fund-raisers, and was introduced to Richardson's great friend Rene Rivkin. It was Rivkin to whom Obeid turned to help finance the purchase of an old printing press from the Packer empire. The name of the company, Offset Alpine, has been in the news ever since.
On Christmas Eve 1993, the plant burned down, delivering a windfall gain for its shareholders when the insurers paid out greatly in excess of the book value.
Obeid later complained to colleagues he had not managed to secure as large a share as he would have liked. But Rivkin's company cashed in, and for the next decade the Tax Office pursued him and Richardson over a Swiss bank account said to hold the proceeds.
By the 1980s, the demographics of western Sydney were rapidly changing and Obeid demonstrated his capabilities in recruiting members and raising funds for the Labor Party. Branches in Sydney's middle and outer west were swelling with Lebanese members.
In 1991 Richardson had helped secure Obeid a seat in the NSW Legislative Council, the sleepy upper house chamber, populated with party fixers and union officials.
In Parliament Obeid cemented his influence a year later by creating the Terrigals faction, named after the shindig he held for like-minded Right-wingers at his Terrigal beach house. The Terrigals came to dominate the NSW right of the parliamentary party.
Factional votes were binding. With 50 per cent plus one, the Terrigals controlled the Right; and because the Right was numerically superior to the Left, it could effectively control caucus.
As its benevolent leader, Obeid's counsel was sought on everything from cabinet positions to policy, to personal problems.
''I did what I had to do, and that was more or less be the peacemaker, the guy that can sort things out amongst individuals and different factions. I had good relationship with most of the Left and I worked to benefit many other people,'' Obeid said this week.
Meanwhile, Obeid was building a stable of young politicians who owed their careers to him. Chief among these was his protege, the Right's Young Labor leader Joe Tripodi, who joined Obeid in Parliament in 1995.
In preselection battles, Obeid was frequently mentioned as the eminence gris behind the outcomes.
At the federal level, he was credited with having delivered preselection to John Murphy, a Drummoyne councillor in the federal seat of Lowe in 1998, over the former head of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade Michael Costello. Costello, who had been political adviser to Kim Beazley, was seen as a star candidate for Labor but was defeated in a branch ballot.
At state level, Obeid was influential in helping install several state politicians. Virginia Judge, the former Strathfield mayor who had worked on his staff, was selected for the state seat of Strathfield. Angela D'Amore, Joe Tripodi's cousin, was preselected for Drummoyne, and the long-time state MP for Heffron Deirdre Grusovin, was replaced with a fresh-faced young woman, Kristina Keneally.
Obeid was only briefly a minister, from 1999 to 2003, when he was responsible for fisheries and minerals. But his time in the ministry was dogged by scandal, notably his inability to get his pecuniary interest register accurate. During this time Obeid divested all his shareholdings to his children, and declared no income other than his parliamentary salary.
But despite the legal arrangements, Obeid remained involved in the family business. According to ICAC this week, ''he could, and did, exercise a final say in respect of important decisions''.
It didn't need ICAC to tell Labor that Obeid was busy doing business from room 1122 in Parliament House. The Herald reported how in 2001, Obeid had travelled with his sons and property developer Nati Stoliar to inspect the family's land holding at Port Macquarie, which the Obeids were seeking to develop.
Meanwhile, his sons were involved in property development, and the manufacturing of street furniture, which several Labor controlled councils were buying.
Behind the scenes Obeid made approaches to ministers, who were often unaware at the time of the direct financial gain that could come to the Obeids. Former ports minister Carl Scully recalled being lobbied by Obeid on behalf of the cafe owners at Circular Quay, unaware that the Obeids were owners too.
But nothing has yet come close to the findings of ICAC that Obeid used his influence to secure a decision from Macdonald to grant a mining exploration licence over land owned by the Obeids and their friends, a decision that could yield his family upwards of $60 million.
The wisdom in pleasing Obeid became more obvious after Carr retired. Obeid would play a role in installing the next three premiers.
Only Rees had the guts to call him out: ''Should I not be premier by the end of this day, let there be no doubt in the community's mind, no doubt, that any challenger will be a puppet of Eddie Obeid and Joe Tripodi.'' Rees lost the leadership to Keneally.
Obeid retired from Parliament on May 10, 2011, just weeks after the party suffered a crushing loss at the state election.
NSW Labor's general secretary, Sam Dastyari, who at one time was so close to Obeid that he had invited him to his wedding, worked for more than a year on an agreed departure strategy.
Within Labor, this was a cause for celebration. Along with the retirement of Obeid's protege Tripodi, the departure allowed the NSW branch to claim it had rid itself of a key malign influence.
But many in the party claim that while the ICAC spotlight has diminished Obeid's influence as people rush to distance themselves, it has not killed it altogether.
Obeid painstakingly constructed a web of patronage during his 20 years as a powerbroker in the NSW Parliament.
''Immediately after he retired, was he a person of influence? Absolutely,'' one senior Labor figure says. ''And that extended to the ninth floor [NSW Labor's head office in Sussex Street].''
The clearest evidence of this was the deal Obeid cut with party officials when they were trying to convince him to leave Parliament. Obeid insisted that if he agreed to go, then he should be replaced by Walt Secord - the former chief of staff to Keneally and treasurer Eric Roozendaal.
The exodus of Labor MPs at the 2011 state election means Obeid's influence is significantly reduced in the NSW Parliament. But it remains alive in pockets of local government.
Obeid is said to be particularly close to the Burwood mayor John Faker and also Parramatta councillor Pierre Esber.
The mayor of Canada Bay, Angelo Tsirekas, is also commonly mentioned, but this is largely believed to be due to the Obeids having lived and worked in the local area.
There are also those in Liberal ranks who believe some Liberal councillors owe their fealty to Obeid, rather than their party.
Rees says: ''Only a fool would take a call from Eddie Obeid now. Regrettably, there's plenty of fools in local government.''
In June, with the ICAC findings imminent, the Labor Party finally got around to expelling Obeid from its ranks. In response he launched a blistering tirade against opposition leader John Robertson, labelling him a ''weak-kneed leader'', saying, he had lobbied to get Robertson a seat in Parliament and into cabinet.
This week he hit out again: ''John Robertson and Sam Dastyari, I cannot believe these people who I supported, I mentored, I got them in their jobs, they don't give me the benefit that every Australian should have, you're innocent until proven guilty.'' Robertson's stay at Obeid's ski lodge, a fact Obeid slyly dropped into evidence during the ICAC findings, is likely to haunt him at the next election.
But at least one senior Labor figure says there is a much bigger challenge facing the party: that of cultural change.
''In the NSW Labor Party, there is a willingness to tolerate, even worship, the cult of whatever it takes, the Richo culture. It's admired. But that culture, taken to extremes, ends up in this grotesque corruption.''
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/rise-and-fall-of-the-godfather-20130802-2r4sb.html#ixzz2apnhLmVH
Australia's jobless rate is officially expected to climb to 6.25 per cent in 2013-14 and 2014-15. The last time the jobless rate was above 6.25 per cent was in September 2002 (6.3 per cent that month in trend terms).
Falling terms of trade and declining tax revenues have sent this year's projected deficit $12 billion higher to $30.1 billion, despite the combined $17.4 billion in spending cuts. A promised balanced budget in 2015-16 has gone by the wayside, despite Treasurer Chris Bowen and Finance Minister Penny Wong sticking with a promised surplus in 2016-17.
But to get there, they plan to send the national balance sheet deeper into the red, first with projected deficits of $24 billion in 2014-15, coming back to $5 billion in the red in 2015-16.
In the job for little over a month, Mr Bowen laid much of the blame at the feet of a slowing Chinese economy. But the opposition attacked the revised economic statement, with its treasury spokesman, Joe Hockey, describing Labor's economic management as ''chaotic'' and its budget ''in free fall''.
Mr Hockey said nearly 800,000 Australians were now likely to be jobless in coming months.
As reported by Fairfax Media, a big rise in tobacco excise is the main revenue measure, reaping almost $6 billion over the next four years. But other savings were outlined, including a near doubling of the public sector efficiency dividend from 1.25 per cent to 2.25 per cent - requiring public servants again to do more with less.
Other boosts to the bottom line include a lower take-up of disability support pensions, and of drugs listed on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, with that alone securing about $2 billion over the forward estimates period. Another $582 million has been garnered from gaining access to small inactive superannuation funds.
Revealed for the first time are the expected costs of Mr Rudd's recently announced Papua New Guinea ''solution'', which the budget papers show will take up $1.1 billion over four years with operating costs of $175 million in 2013-14.
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Mohamed ElBaradei is hopeful democracy can still be achieved in Egypt.
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Mohamed ElBaradei calls for reconciliation before the violence in Egypt’s streets spirals out of control.
CAIRO—Mohamed ElBaradei, a former head of the International Atomic Energy Agency and one of Egypt's best-known international figures, became vice president for external affairs in the new government after the ouster of President Mohammed Morsi. ElBaradei sat down with Lally Weymouth in his Cairo office this past week to discuss the Muslim Brotherhood, violence, and the chances for lasting democracy in Egypt. Excerpts:
Lally Weymouth: What should happen to the Muslim Brotherhood members camped out at the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque? U.S. officials are concerned that the army will crack down and there will be more bloodshed.
Lally Weymouth: What should happen to the Muslim Brotherhood members camped out at the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque? U.S. officials are concerned that the army will crack down and there will be more bloodshed.
Mohamed ElBaradei: That's exactly what we want to avoid. Being harsh is not a solution. Understanding what we need to do and how you achieve social inclusion and political stability is more important. There's a lot of high emotions here and a lot of anger. That's not where we want to go. We want to go into more acceptance of diversity of different views. That's the only way to achieve stability. What we need to do right now No. 1, of course, is to make sure that we stop the violence. And there is a lot of violence.
Once we do that, we immediately have to go into a dialogue to ensure that the Brotherhood understand that Mr. Morsi failed. But that doesn't mean that the Brotherhood should be excluded in any way. They should continue to be part of the political process, they should continue to participate in the rewriting of the constitution, in running for parliamentary elections and presidential elections. You have the Tea Party, and you have the American Civil Liberties Union. There is a big, wide gap, but they are able to live together under the Constitution.
L.W.: So members of the Muslim Brotherhood have to understand that Morsi failed but they should be able to run for office?
L.W.: So members of the Muslim Brotherhood have to understand that Morsi failed but they should be able to run for office?
M.E.B.: Morsi failed not because he is a member of the Brotherhood but because he failed to deliver. In a democracy, when you get 20 million people in the street, you resign. Unfortunately, we don't have a process of recall or impeachment like you have. It was a popular uprising rejecting Mr. Morsi's continuing in power. Unfortunately, people had to call on the army to intervene. The army had to intervene because short of that, we would have ended up in a civil war. People went to the street on the 30thof June and were not psychologically ready to go home until Morsi left office. Either it would have continued, with all the bloodshed that would have come with it, or Mr. Morsi had to leave. It would have been ideal for Mr. Morsi to resign, but he didn't.
So you have this esoteric discussion, whether this is a coup d'état. When you have 20 million people calling on Mr. Morsi to leave, and the army had to step in to avoid a civil war, does that make it a coup d'état? Of course not. It's not your classical army intervention. It's really the army providing support to a popular uprising. It was no different than what happened under [former president Hosni] Mubarak, except this time you had the Brotherhood and the Salafis—you had a country much more divided than during Mubarak's time, when he didn't have much support other than his apparatchiks. So they had to come in. But nobody wants to see the army back. The army itself understands that they cannot govern, they are unable to govern, and people don't want them to govern.
L.W.: Do you see Gen. [Abdel Fattah] al-Sisi?
L.W.: Do you see Gen. [Abdel Fattah] al-Sisi?
M.E.B.: I talk to him all the time. ... This is a country with a lot of anger and irrational feelings, and we need to cool things down. The army has a role to play in protecting national security. But we the people need to make sure this is a transition to move towards democracy. We need to make sure we have a civilian president, a vice president, a government, and that they are in charge. We also need to make sure there is a proper division of labor between what the army has to do and between governance, which has to continue to rest with civilians. We need to make that transition right this time. As you remember, from Day 1, I thought we were heading in the wrong direction because we didn't have a constitution at the beginning.
L.W.: So you thought it was wrong to have elections before writing a constitution?
L.W.: So you thought it was wrong to have elections before writing a constitution?
M.E.B.: Absolutely. If you look at my tweets, you will see from Day 1 I said we were heading in the wrong direction because you need to start with a constitution. This time we are starting with the constitution. We already have a committee of legal experts working on proposing amendments. We are going to have a constituent assembly of 50 people who we are going to select from all walks of life. Then we will go for parliamentary and presidential elections. I hope this whole process will be no more than nine months to a year. Then people will see we really want to move into a democracy.
Whether we are going to have a perfect democracy—of course not. You don't have it even in the U.S. And we are coming from five decades of a total authoritarian government. We are on occasion making mistakes, having hiccups on the road, as you saw a couple months ago, but we have to make corrections and move forward. Do we need democracy? Absolutely. Is democracy the way to go? Absolutely. Will a democratic Egypt have a tremendous positive impact on the Arab world and the region? Absolutely.
L.W.: Are you going to run for president?
Whether we are going to have a perfect democracy—of course not. You don't have it even in the U.S. And we are coming from five decades of a total authoritarian government. We are on occasion making mistakes, having hiccups on the road, as you saw a couple months ago, but we have to make corrections and move forward. Do we need democracy? Absolutely. Is democracy the way to go? Absolutely. Will a democratic Egypt have a tremendous positive impact on the Arab world and the region? Absolutely.
L.W.: Are you going to run for president?
M.E.B.: No, my role will have been completed to put the country on the right track. I think I will have done what I can do, and a change of generation is needed here. I would like to continue to be a coach, rather than an active player, after we move through the transition period.
L.W.: Where is Morsi?
L.W.: Where is Morsi?
M.E.B.: Morsi is in a place to protect him. There are charges levied against him. I think once we get the violence down and start a dialogue, a lot of these things could be checked. We aren't going to intervene with a court order, but there is a lot of room to see how we deal with possibly a safe exit for all the Muslim Brotherhood leadership who are not really involved in serious crimes.
L.W.: So there could be a safe exit for some Muslim Brothers?
L.W.: So there could be a safe exit for some Muslim Brothers?
M.E.B.: This is on the table.
L.W.: Where would they go?
L.W.: Where would they go?
M.E.B.: Whether they want to be here or go out of the country—these are issues to be discussed. [European Union representative] Catherine Ashton went to see [Morsi], and she said he's in good health.
L.W.: Do you think that Nelson Mandela set a great example with reconciliation—his idea of forgive but don't forget?
L.W.: Do you think that Nelson Mandela set a great example with reconciliation—his idea of forgive but don't forget?
M.E.B.: If you ask me, forgetting and forgiving is what I would opt for. I'm not running the country, but I would definitely argue for forgiveness once we move forward. Tolerance. South Africa is a perfect example.
L.W.: You would like to see a pardon of the charges against Morsi?
L.W.: You would like to see a pardon of the charges against Morsi?
M.E.B.: If they are not very serious, I would like to see a possible pardon as a part of a grand package. Because the fate of the country is much more important.
L.W.: People seem extremely angry—at Morsi, at the United States.
L.W.: People seem extremely angry—at Morsi, at the United States.
M.E.B.: Everybody is angry—we have 90 million people who are angry. Everybody thinks they have the solution. They are talking at each other, not to each other. We had a revolution two years ago, and we see a people moving from a completely authoritarian system into a democracy. They don't know how democracy works. They don't know the ingredients of a democracy. It takes time. There were a lot of expectations after the revolution—even unrealistic expectations, in many cases—that salaries would be doubled. None of that took place because of course you have a country that is ailing in many ways.
L.W.: Financially?
L.W.: Financially?
M.E.B.: Financially, economically, socially—in every respect. The gap between the rich and the poor, the poverty level, illiteracy—all of that is still there. What we need is anger management right now. Part of that is to lower the temperature in terms of violence and then have a dialogue. And once people start talking to each other, they will understand that this demonization of each other is just in their minds and not based in reality. I don't want to get into a witch-hunt situation. That's not where we should go. The last year was very bad. Mr. Morsi adopted a policy of exclusion. That backlash that you see right now is people saying, "We have been treated unfairly politically, economically, socially." He tried to impose social values that aren't sitting well with the majority of Egyptians, such as his own version of Islam, which is not shared by the majority of Muslims. The reaction right now is just anger. We tried to get even. But we shouldn't try to get even—we should try to reconcile.
L.W.: Who is the government's main contact with the Muslim Brotherhood?
L.W.: Who is the government's main contact with the Muslim Brotherhood?
M.E.B.: There hasn't been an organized dialogue between them and the government. There's a lot at the civil-society level. But once the violence is out of the way, we'd like to get some dialogue. I'd be happy to do it myself. I talked to the North Koreans—I should be able to talk to the Muslim Brotherhood. I believe in dialogue. That's the only way to move forward.
L.W.: What do you think about the anti-American sentiment that is so prevalent in Cairo?
L.W.: What do you think about the anti-American sentiment that is so prevalent in Cairo?
M.E.B.: Again, this is part of the anger. Some of it is justified, a lot of it is not justified. There is a conspiracy theory that Americans propped up the Muslim Brotherhood. ... America is always a good target for a populist. In many countries, particularly authoritarian systems, if you want to get an extra bonus, you bash the Americans.
Mr. Morsi was democratically elected. It was an opportunity for the U.S. to reconcile with political Islam. ... If I were American, I would have done the same. The problem is that the Brotherhood failed miserably.
L.W.: The Saudis and the United Arab Emirates gave a huge amount of money to Egypt after Morsi left.
L.W.: The Saudis and the United Arab Emirates gave a huge amount of money to Egypt after Morsi left.
M.E.B.: They were so happy to be rid of them because for them, [the Muslim Brotherhood] was an imminent danger. And as a result, they are spraying money at us. Which is great. But again, we need to make sure things cool down here so we can use the money to jump-start the economy. It's good to get that money. But what I really care about is to make sure we get foreign direct investment and the tourists back.
In my view, our problem No. 1, 2, and 3 is economic development.
L.W.: How in charge is the interim government? Do you have to consult with the army all the time?
M.E.B.: We have to consult with the army when there is a national security issue, when there is a demonstration. But in terms of economic plans, negotiating with the IMF [International Monetary Fund], for example—no.
L.W.: Are you going to do that?
M.E.B.: We have to do it. I hope to do it. I think the government wants to do it because we need that certificate of creditworthiness. We have that money coming to us from the gulf. We do not want the IMF because of the $4 billion. We need the IMF as a certificate that the economy is healthy so we can get foreign direct investment. I personally believe we should do it as soon as things start to stabilize here.
L.W.: How many people are unemployed?
L.W.: How many people are unemployed?
M.E.B.: Three million unemployed. Young people. What do you do with them? This is a real issue for us.
L.W.: You turned down ministerial portfolios in the past few years. Why did you accept now?
L.W.: You turned down ministerial portfolios in the past few years. Why did you accept now?
M.E.B.: Because I think the country is falling apart. And I think the youth who staged this uprising wanted me to step in and be in charge. They wanted me to be the prime minister with full authority. I think there was a consensus of the secular parties and the youth, the 20 million who went to the street. I could not say no at a time when the country was falling apart. I would have to give it my all.
L.W.: As vice president, what are your duties?
L.W.: As vice president, what are your duties?
M.E.B.: My duties are international relations, which is all-encompassing. I need to look into investment policies, foreign policies, and make sure we get back into a normal relationship with the rest of the world—the gulf in particular, the U.S., and Europe. I want to make sure that investment is coming back. I'm also working on the democratic transition and on the criteria for selecting the constituent assembly with the president and the prime minister.
L.W.: The constituent assembly will draft the constitution?
L.W.: The constituent assembly will draft the constitution?
M.E.B.: Yes, it's going to draft the constitution. I want to be engaged in a dialogue with the Brotherhood and the Salafis to make sure that everyone is on board.
L.W.: What about Egypt's relationship with Israel?
L.W.: What about Egypt's relationship with Israel?
M.E.B.: Again, this is now a democracy. We need to make sure that there is really a real peace with the Israelis. They have an opportunity, frankly, right now. In the past, they had peace with Mubarak, not with the Egyptians. Now is an opportunity for them, and I hope they grab that opportunity to have a peace with the Egyptians. But that requires that they make certain major adjustments to their policy with the Palestinians.
L.W.: So you'd like to see a positive outcome of Secretary of State John Kerry's talks?
L.W.: So you'd like to see a positive outcome of Secretary of State John Kerry's talks?
M.E.B.: Absolutely. Kerry's talks are based on a two-state solution and all the basic pillars of Bill Clinton's outline done in the last week of his presidency. Once we get that, then I think the road is open for normalization of relations with Israelis and a comprehensive peace in the region.
L.W.: Could the army coax the Brotherhood to leave the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque and Cairo University?
L.W.: Could the army coax the Brotherhood to leave the Rabaa al-Adawiya mosque and Cairo University?
M.E.B.: Ideally, we need to get them out through dialogue. Ideally, that should completely stop violence. As I said, I do not want to see any more bloodshed. Nobody wants that. We are doing our best. That's why [I favor] a dialogue renouncing violence as part of a package for them to disband this whole demonstration and then start building the country.
L.W.: But they need to cooperate?
L.W.: But they need to cooperate?
M.E.B.: They need to cooperate. But they need of course to feel secure, they need immunity, they need to feel that they are not excluded. It's things we are willing to provide.
L.W.: Do you have to restore law and order?
L.W.: Do you have to restore law and order?
M.E.B.: We have to restore law and order eventually. We are in a race against time. People are very angry. People are very angry with me because I am saying, "Let's take time, let's talk to them." The mood right now is, "Let's crush them, let's not talk to them." That would last for one week, and then they would come back. It would be a disaster everywhere, inside Egypt and outside Egypt. We need to get a long-range view based on restoring order and based on national consensus and reconciliation. I hope the Brotherhood understands that time is not on their side. I'm holding the fort, but I can't hold it for very long.
L.W.: Are you a single voice on this subject?
L.W.: Are you a single voice on this subject?
M.E.B.: No, I'm not a single voice at all. A lot of people understand that, but we are not the majority.
L.W.: Do you think last Saturday [when 72 people were killed as Egyptian security forces stormed a pro-Morsi demonstration] was a mistake?
L.W.: Do you think last Saturday [when 72 people were killed as Egyptian security forces stormed a pro-Morsi demonstration] was a mistake?
M.E.B.: Last Saturday was terrible. I called for an independent commission. Anything that involves losing lives is a horrible mistake. Whoever started it, whether it was excessive use of retaliation—I don't know. But we need to make sure this will not be repeated. This is our immediate priority right now. Stop violence and go back to the table and start talking and find a solution. We are condemned to live together.
L.W.: And you think it's possible?
L.W.: And you think it's possible?
M.E.B.: Otherwise I would not be here. We don't have other options.
L.W.: Does Gen. Sisi share your view?
L.W.: Does Gen. Sisi share your view?
M.E.B.: He does. He understands that there has to be a political solution. But of course he has a responsibility to protect the country in terms of security. And the army is on the edge.
L.W.: Is he going to run for president? His picture is all over Cairo.
L.W.: Is he going to run for president? His picture is all over Cairo.
M.E.B.: You see Sisi's picture everywhere, and it's good that he is not thinking of running for president. It's good that he does not want to have the army run the country. But people in a national emergency look for power, and the power rests with the army right now.
L.W.: Did you know Morsi would go?
L.W.: Did you know Morsi would go?
M.E.B.: I knew he would go.
L.W.: Did you have inside information?
L.W.: Did you have inside information?
M.E.B.: No, it was just my gut feeling from talking to all these angry young Egyptians. Everybody went to the street, and they were not ready to come back until Morsi went. And I think it was good he went the way he went because we saved a lot of lives. The army intervention was simply to avert a civil war.
L.W.: You feel the army had to intervene?
L.W.: You feel the army had to intervene?
M.E.B.: They had no choice, the army. There would have been a lot of wrath against them. It's their national duty to protect national security. It's a very peculiar situation. Sissi until yesterday was telling me: "I wish Morsi would have succeeded. I wish Morsi would have listened to us." They talked to him three or four times before he left, the chief of staff of the army, telling him he had to make a lot of corrections. He had to be more inclusive. That he had to fix the economy. That he had to continue to listen to the people. They told him what every one of us was seeing—that the country was falling apart. He didn't listen.
L.W.: But Sisi said to you he wished Morsi listened?
L.W.: But Sisi said to you he wished Morsi listened?
M.E.B.: Yes, he keeps saying he wished that Morsi would have succeeded, he wished they didn't have to do what they have done. So it's not that there is glee on his face that they had to do that. This is the most crucial period in Egypt for a long time. You asked why I stepped in? Because I do not want to see the country where I grew up falling apart. It's not easy because there's a lot of anger. It's not people listening to the voice of reason.
You want people to understand that yes, we have our ideological differences. Yes, Morsi had to be removed from power. There are billionaires and 40 million people who live under $2 a day. We have one-third of the country who are illiterate. We have a lot of ills, socially and economically. But put all that in the melting pot, we have to find a recipe to live together. Because we have no other option other than to implode.
